I heard a minister recently talking about the rapture and trying to make the point that every prophecy necessary to the return of Christ has already been fulfilled. One of his points was that the Gospel has already been preached in all the world according to the promise of Jesus in Matt 24:14 (And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.), “Now” he said, “We’re just waiting for Jesus to come back.”
If you are one of those standing in line waiting for the rapture like a ride at Disney World, consider these statistics on world evangelism that I have collected from a variety of sources. As you read these keep in mind that in the United States there is 1 ordained minister for every 200 people. Yet…
– For every million unreached Muslims there are less than 3 missionaries.
– In Afghanistan there are 17 million people, 48,000 mosques…but not a single church.
– In Turkey there are 44 million people, but less then 200 Christians
– In India alone 500 million people have yet to hear the Gospel
– 30% of the world’s population (more than 2 billion people) have had virtually no exposure to the Gospel.
– The New Testament has been translated into the mother tongue of over 80% of the world’s population. However the remaining approximately 20% will require over 5,500 new translations.
Jesus said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations” (Matt 28:19). The word, “Nations” is “Ethne” in the Greek meaning ethnic people groups. Yet…
– There are an estimated 6,700 unreached or nearly unreached people groups.
– The countries with the most unreached people groups in descending order; India, China, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh.
– 98% of all unreached people groups are located in the “10/40 Window”.
THE GREAT COMMISSION IS STILL UNFULFILLED! Oswald Smith said, “We talk of the Second Coming; but half the world has never heard of the first.” Regardless if you are “pre-trib”, “post-trib”, “mid-trib” or some other “trib”, we must all confess that there is something desperately wrong with this type of doctrinal philosophy that makes us happy to escape with our own hides while the world burns and billions of people are lost. Where is the heart of Jesus in that? “…that none would perish, but that all would come to repentance.”
Here’s some food for thought; Jesus died more then 2,000 years ago. If it was God’s ultimate goal to rapture us all out of this “old god-forsaken world”, then why are we still here? What are we still waiting for? One person told me, “Jesus is building my mansion in heaven.” Really? It took him 6 days to create the entire cosmos, yet he’s been hung up with your “mansion” for 2,000 years? Not likely.
Heb. 10:12, 13 says, “but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.” Since we are his hands and feet, then He must be waiting for…us. If He is waiting for us, and we are waiting for him, it would seem we are at an impasse. This is why Jesus told his disciples, “GO” into all the world and preach the Gospel. No more waiting and debating…just Go and PREACH.
“In the vast plain to the north I have sometimes seen, in the morning sun, the smoke of a thousand villages where no missionary has ever been” — Robert Moffat
Daniel Kolenda is an evangelist with Christ For All Nations working alongside Reinhard Bonnke, learn more at his website www.danielkolenda.com.
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Daniel,
you say: .. that makes us happy to escape with our own hides while the world burns and billions of people are lost. Where is the heart of Jesus in that? “…that none would perish, but that all would come to repentance.”
Are you suggesting that all will be saved when Jesus returns? I think you have created a straw man, because I’ve never met anyone who is “standing in line waiting for the rapture like a ride at Disney World.”
Or maybe I just hang with some good people.
“waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.” Since we are his hands and feet, then He must be waiting for…us.”
While I don’t necessarily agree with what the preacher presented (every prophecy being fulfilled), and I agree with the bulk of your message, I find the above statement a little reaching. I understand the analogy of us being the body of Christ….but somehow I don’t think that he was referring to the church in that verse. ?
Any clarifying thoughts?
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A pre-trib rapture is merely escapist dellusion, wishful thinking, and cannot be biblically substantiated. The sequence of events is exceedingly clear from a plethora of scriptural verses and for those comparing scripture with scripture, first the tribulation then the rapture. Where did these myths about a pre- mid- tribulation emenate/originate from?
@Christine: Can Christ be victorious without His Body? Can you imagine a scenario where there could be a fulfillment of the prophetic promise in Heb 10:13 without the partnership of the Church? Are we (the Church) merely spectators to the unfolding of history, or are we the agents of Divine omnipotence?
@Bill: I’m glad you’ve not been exposed to this kind of thinking. How I wish it were just a “straw man”.
Thanks Daniel, though I know more believers in Turkey personally than you list (add a zero or two). The other fact of return prerequisite is the present nation of Israel, in its traditional contexts acknowledging their need for Him. “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord,” which is an ongoing effort of those in Missions and those already converted in the Land of the People of the Book. The “Rapture” (parousia), according to Paul in Thesalonians 1 & 2 cannot occur until the Day of the Lord’s appearing, and for His intention to complete promises made in the Tenach regarding restoration of his Kingdom for Messianic rule conditions to be in place in Israel (both letters discuss these prerequisites, and the likelihood of suffering for the Name being associated with political and spiritual conditions of apostacy in the world in that season). Just so, what you are suggesting regarding getting the Message to those not hearing, not churched, and not so becoming salt and light in their own nations is in the heart of our Lord’s own commission.
Good word, brother. Now, to the harvest….
So, it then is impossible for a modern day Passover? Those who had the blood of the lamb on their door were spared from Gods wrath. Is it not possible that those who have the blood of the lamb on their hearts to be spared Gods wrath again? Remember we are talking about Gods wrath, not the current condition of a fallen world. I suppose we need to ask ourselves why would God pour His wrath on those who follow His Son?
To look at this another way Jesus will return when the Jews call for him. What would make the Jews do this since most Jews deny him? What would be the reason? They did not call out during the holocaust which one might think they would have. What if the Christian nation were about to go under a massive world-wide Holocaust of their own, and suddenly in some way they were supernaturally spared, (because they believe in the Son of God) perhaps even removed altogether? Would this not move the Jews to Jealousy as the bible predicts? Would this “event” not spread into the hearts of the Jews and have them call out to Jesus, so they would be spared a massive Islamic invasion? Would this not make them cry out as if the death of a first born son? A final act of recognition of the Messiah, as it were.
I don’t see this as “entitlement” per se’, I just see the possibility of a possible rapture to help soften the hearts of those who do not believe in Jesus Christ. We see how many change after the two witnesses are “raptured” up to the sky. At first many are rejoicing at the death of the two witnesses, and when they are resurrected and brought up, many fall to their faces and give glory to God, as if they are finally convinced. Perhaps if we think it through is it not conceivable it is they who go through the tribulation (as now the word “saints” appears again in the text) because they believe by miracles and the saints who came before believed by faith alone?
To take it a bit further it seems to me that a great multitude that no one could number is standing before the Lamb in white robes before the trumpets sound and the bowls of judgement empty?
Anyway, just a few thoughts. Blessings of the Lord.
Your brother in the faith,
Tim, You raise the matter of Redemptive inclusion of the Jews. This is discussed in several passages of the NT and the Tenach. There seems to be a convergance of actions, of Jewish Jerusalem history, and redemptive intention of God making it so. You might read the last part of the Third Temple forum of this magazine. Recall too that Jeremiah 31:34 comes after what some scholars believe to be a depiction of the Holocaust, of Jeremiah 30.
As for a “rapture” away from tributlation’s difficulty, the persecuted church over the centuries did not find it so, why around a supposed seven year period of “great tribulation” would it be so. We are not appointed for wrath. The letters to the Thesalonians, other letter’s mention of conditions for the Return, late Revl. 19, and early 20, as well as Jesus remarks on the Mt. of Olives alluding to Daniel tell us to prepare for the Return, all seemingly coninciding with Zechariah. It seems such remarks were concentrated as to events surrounding Jerusalem, armies, great tribulation, and setting up a promised Kingdom. These events are very intertwined with inherent scripts about National religious Heritage Temple ideations, who will be the true Messiah, and the confession on the apparent appearing (present tense) when it occurs. Convergance in time, over a chosen Nation, for a government not yet seen on the planet.
The NIVNTBC puts it this way, regarding the Jewish Nation, and appplying the New Covenant.
“Israel
will yet ratify it at the climax of her history .
Zech 12:9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem. “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. 11 On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13 the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14 and all the rest of the clans and their wives.
Does this mean that another covenant needs to be made for either Israel or Gentiles? Obviously not, since both share redemption by faith in the blood of the new covenant. Writing to Hebrews of his time, including believing Hebrews, the writer of the letter to the Hebrews makes clear how the new covenant now avails for both (cf. Heb 8; see also Eph 3:1-7).
Some ask how the new covenant can apply to the church when it was to be negotiated with Israel and Judah. The historical argument is insurmountable: when the new covenant was inaugurated (see the gospel accounts), there was no church, nor could there be until the resurrection of Christ (cf Eph 1:22-23). Furthermore, although Jer 31 does not state it, the making of the new covenant was inextricably bound up with the crucifixion of Christ for all humankind. When Israel refused to enter into the covenant (cf. Isa 53; Mt 22:1-10; Lk 14:15-23), God having but one way of salvation for all ages of history, the offer of redemption (the procuring means of the covenant) went out to all people. Although the church is not explicitly seen in the OT, the salvation of non-Jews is predicted more than once (cf. Isa 49:1-7, esp. v. 6). It is the new truth of the NT that redeemed Jews and Gentiles constitute the church of this age. Salvation is possible only through the death of Christ, and this is the basis of the new covenant. All sinful humanity is thus in view in this covenant. Finally, Israel as a nation will ratify the covenant after the “full number of the Gentiles has come in” (Ro 11:25-27).
32 Jeremiah points out in this verse that the new covenant is built on the fact of Israel’s failure under the old covenant. Because the old covenant was a legal one (“If you do . . . I will do”), it was incumbent on both parties to maintain its provisions. Israel did not, for the people broke the first commandment before Moses descended from Sinai. The fault lay with the people and their sin; they broke the covenant. Thus the new covenant must supersede the old. If the old covenant had not been broken, then what need was there for the ministry of Jeremiah or any of the OT prophets?
And so with over 12 temple reconstruction organizations in Israel proper, some well endowed–each differing in approach to the challenge, the time is short for Daniel K’s burden and adminishion to come to pass. Years ago, when receiving the Messiah on my knees in my Grandmother’s back bedroom after reading Matthew and John, and asking Him to show me if He was “really real” (He did), the first fellowship of believers I shared was marked by dreams of us literally running door to door because of the sense of timely urgency. I expect that to literally occur in this decade.
“waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. Since we are his hands and feet, then He must be waiting for…us.”
Christine,
I too find that statement a “little reaching.”
The reference in Heb 10 is Psalm 110:1, which is a messianic Psalm in which the LORD (God the Father) says to my lord (Jesus) ” “Sit down at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool!”
Psalm 110 is quoted numerous times in the N.T.; many reliable translations omit the phrase “for his feet,” but regardless, we (the church) are not sitting down at the right hand of God (the place of honor reserved for the Son who is to be worshipped). Again, Psalm 110 is a messianic Psalm, it is not talking about the church (or Israel).
Furthermore the phrase “since we are his hands and feet” is misleading, Metaphorically, the church is likened to the body of Christ, most notably in 1 Cor 12, where we are compared to feet, ears, eyes, noses, even the head. However, it is a stretch to use thie metaphor in 1 Cor 12 to “decode” Psalm 110 or Hebrews 10. Unless one is predisposed to Warnock’s teachings, the connection would never be made. Quoting Bill Randles:
In his teaching on the day of Atonement, George Warnock tells us that the two goats typify Christ as the head and Christ in the fullness of His people, His body. He then makes this statement, Christ the head,therefore, is not complete without Christ, the body…Christ is the body, the whole body and not just the head. Through the use of allegory, he has managed to invert a valid biblical concept! We can understand the statement, You are not
complete, except in Christ. However, Warnock and the Manifested Sons teachers reverse that statement, teaching that Christ is not complete without us!
How does that compare with this statement?
“Since we are his hands and feet, then He must be waiting for us.”
Bill, Excellent balancing statement, well thought out and indeed so. However, as we are the awaiting Bride of the coming Bridegroom, we are instructed to have our lamps trimmed, and to make ourselves ready. The fact remains that others do not know unless they hear the message, and the message comes by hearing the word of God through someone, somewhere.
It is indeed cautioning for any certain group to assume they have the answers for what is missing, when it is God in Christ who does indeed, is the Lord of Redemption, and the overseer of history. Resting in that needs too the completion of obedience to claim what the word says the blood does–not only in our own relationship, but in the extension of the Kingdom to others. How this occurs may simply be a matter of looking into your and your friends own stories of grace and truth knocking at their own hearts doors, for the initial interchange, the Promise, and the future hope.
What some of those insisting on ecstatic experience orchestrated beneath their fingertips have missed is that we all are formed into “One New Man’, yet another analogy of Paul on the essential teaching that we are now found in community, needing the mutual edification of all to be rightly related to one another and He who sits on the Throne.
I too have caution on the often hidden agendas of those who believe they hold the power of God in their own grasp for its command and assertion, where so. It is Jesus and the Spirit who brings testimony of Him who has introduced the Divine Plan of His Cross being sufficient, and Jesus who will do the work of salvation. Just so, telling our testimony and preaching His Gospel (luke 5:31) of repentance is in the mix. The fine balance of not preaching ourselves, but Him, is a matter indeed of connection to the head when so serving (II Cor. 4:5).
Jabez,
I indeed hold to the great commission. We are charged to do the work of God, in partnership, but IMHO God’s timetable is not at the mercy of man. God is soverign, and indeed if we will not work with him, he will raise up some who will.
Here’s an exciting video. No, the gospel has not been preached to the entire world, but we are certainly closer today than yesterday.
http://vimeo.com/17025038
That’s a great video, Bill, thanks for sharing!
Yes, what a glorious video!
Hello all,
interesting debate! Just to say that whilst some of the “Latter Rain’ (Warnock etc) teaching has gone too far, we must not be guilty of rejecting everything. Warnock, though at times has an overly realised eschatology, is a very Godly man, powerfully used of God in the 50s. I encourage you to read my article on Prophets, citing some of the very first brothers mightily touched in that original outpouring.
Whilst some of that teaching may have become overly triumphalistic, I do believe that God was still emphasising the presence of His Kingdom to the Church in a real way; causing her to come out of an overly futuristic eschatology which produced pessimism, toward a more optimistic and realised stance. I believe George Ladd’s teaching on this is excellent.
When Jesus returns I believe we will be shocked by how much of the Kingdom was now, and yet, coupled with persecutions, hardships, strife for His Name’s sake, and inheriting a glory to come in the ages to come.
Interestingly, before I came on here to read these comments, I was weighing up what to write next for VOR. This came to me: ‘We are seated with Him in heavenly places’
With persecutions, hardships, nakedness and sword, I think the Lord is about show the Body of Jesus what that means ‘today’, because it has implications NOW in our preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, as well as in the ages to come.
Lastly, I know that some feel uncomfortable with the whole ‘manifest sons of God’ teaching. Whilst I would disagree with much of it myself, again for the reasons above, we must study Scripture prayerfully, and see that what God is working in the earth is the revelation of the ‘the Son’ amoung many ‘brothers’. Sonship is the key issue of the plan of God. Those who in receiving Him, have become co-heirs, both now and fully in the age to come. THAT has massive implications especially in light of where the Church in the West is at today, and where we need to be for Jesus’ Return.
Blessings
Andrew
While I recall reading the Manifest Sons of God literature in the early 1970s, after my conversion, it always seemed futuristic and a little weird at that time. Defining the future of redemption in terms of a supposed us, not Him. The meetings attended at Camps Farthest Out on the east coast at the time were very show and tell centered phenonenologically at the time. Some of the worship songs though still echo in my soul. Derek Prince, Don Basham, Charles Simpson, etc. were the speakers who constantly interpreted all religious involvments in terms of the gifts of the Spirit and evolving guidance as something totally detached by the Holy Spirit from what church had been about. Even so, much seemed contrived and meeting oriented, not simply of the Lord moving in the land. I heard much later about the Asbury phenomena, and read even later about how it happened, in a totally noncontrived nonorchestrated manner. Self absorption was not its legacy, whereas it has been of the so-called Charismatic Renewal movement of that era.
It seems obvious then, in the light of II Cor 4:5, that this untouched generation of indulgent materialistic cynicism requires a less self absorbed approach to their evalgelism and “awakening”. Why not let God himself do the core work, and respond as servants of others for His sake. There is always the Asbury model of 1970 as the least manipulated example for the regeneration of a generation. I wrote on that in another forum here for good reason.
A sobering warning to all here. Consider how your loyalties work, the comradery of schooling together, having come from a cadre of affirmation of this or that belief system, and too what God would do in this generation if you are willing to become his servants, and step aside for Him to do the work. Consider how your loyalties may be blinding you as to means and methods, yield to the intentions of Christ, allow Him to formulate touching this entire generation. Instead of viewing yourselves as the fulcrums of revival, humble yourselves this fall, each day confessing and petitioning, requesting as it were, for the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ to come and affect this upcoming godless generation. The model is sound, of good report, and quickening and magnifying of the Message of Him, who holds our key to redemption. Those who would put the gifts under their fingertips, step aside, get on your knees, examine your own hearts and minds, and request of Him to visit and touch and change this upcoming generation. Our continent is fragmented, dissipated, and preoccupied with cares, riches, and itself. The Asbury model does not put us in the middle of the actual mix of resulting testimony and visitation magnification–it permits Him to do the visiting. Let it be so.
Andrew, I left out a specific response, above. To coin “sonship” rather than affirm it would be in error. It is one reality of adoption, among many. To coin any pet message can then glean from the fields and waters representing the people in scripture to gain a following for oneself. Consider how one’s loyalties work, and how easily they can be won and misdirect an entire generation. “Sonship” is just OK. Following Him is better.
Why self elect another priesthood for what God would do with a priesthood of believers in this upcoming generation? Why add to spiritual Babylon, by erecting a pet doctrine for a considered adherence and inevitable loyalty gained from those our Lord would woo to His side??? CONSIDER HOW OUR HUMAN LOYALTIES WORK>are we willing to step aside and let Him do the work, Him lead the effort, HIM BE THE CHOSEN ONE???
I find no “debate” here, just considerable understanding and misunderstanding of the heart and Way of Christ.
Consider how our loyalties work, why pettify these tendencies. The heart was meant for Jesus Kingdom.
Caught in the Act of a vanity of ministerial intention. Go and sin no more.
Daniel asked, with a perusaded bent toward this manipulable plane, “are we the agents of Divine omnipotence”? No, Daniel, we are not. We are adopted children of God, to wash our garments in the blood of the lamb, and to offer a related testimony of HE WHO IS WORTHY. Casting crowns is in order to the challenge.
Andrew,
I look forward to seeing you grapple with “heavenly places” vs. “right hand of God.”
Jabez, I think that you possibly mis-understand my statement on sonship. Understanding that our sonship is ‘in the Son’ firstly and finally.
I encourage you to read the Scriptures in the light of Creation, fall, God preserving a people, calling out Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to become Israel – God’s firstborn son. Then themselves having to submit as sons to the fatherly dealings of God, with only those submitting as such inheriting the promised through the Son.
Then the Son, coming as the manifestation of God’s glory, laying down His life for the nations, and identifying with Israel’s sonship: ‘out of Egpyt I have called My Son’.
Now through a victorious work, He gives us the downpayment of the Spirit of sonship, to experience through suffering and then glory, as sons like Christ in baptism (behold my beloved Son) the wilderness testings (if you are the Son) into victory and promise (all akin to Israel – God’s firstborn).
Then, as Hebrews says: He is not ashamed to call us HIs brothers… And ultimately sons are seen in the renewal of all things – 1 Corinthians 15, and ultimately ruling and reigning with Him for all eternity. The key being IN Him.
I therefore suggest that sonship is more than a ‘pet theme’ but actually the very heart of God for us through redeption, made possible, and revealed in and through the Chief Son and Heir.
BILL: You are right on in making that distinction, which is perhaps where some go wrong IMO. None the less, we do as much dis-service to the Lord by disconnecting His headship and Lordship from His Body. He is ‘the First fruits’ of many. That does not put the people of God in His place – that alone belongs to Him. But it is His heart to bring ‘many sons to glory’ ultimately, and for us to live a victorious Kingdom life in this troubled world now. Either extreme can lead to trouble and violate the Gospel of God.
Bill,
by the way – our ‘heavenly places’ is because He is at the right hand of God – right? Therefore, we don’t have to grapple :)
Andrew
Andrew, I wrote what would be in error on the term you used, where and when so. If what was raised is not the case, we have nothing to contend about whatsoever. I would be in error to ascribe without considered evidence or true knowledge of intention. It is good to disclose your intention, as you have indeed clarified and given your outline of thought development on the theme raised. It is very good that you quickly responded here to correct any misinterpretation of your intention and purpose, where so.
Recall that what Bill addressed, and I mentioned as to past experiences with the Manifest Sons of God literature (as was equally distributed with the Holy Spirit Teaching Mission literature at their teaching rallies in the 1970s): as a context to which you responded here. This was set by two responders as was about stretching what is written into what might loosely be called the development of a buzz phrase-like “pet” doctrine overassuming about “us”. Such stuff saturated the movement in that season.
It is a little like certain Messianic groups believing that they are Ephriam, an essentially nonvital and very stretched assumption. The tendency was then, and now, that as “truth” was embraced by stimulated devotees (stimulated as to identification vanity), they became devotees of such, not of Jesus, per se. This kept many from following Jesus as His own disciples–instead they followed this one or that one (Apollos, or ?).
I apologize where my remarks seem assumptive. And ask, why “sonship”, why not simply adopted sons, brothers, and kinsmen-redeemers as to forming such a thematic and practical assertion of God’s intention? I have no lovers quarrel with your outline as given. In the above dialogue of most parties, it seems I and some others have raised certain concerns on what was being stretched by Daniel, and how he saw a ministry by ministers of the Gospel in the mix. Certainly affirming being sons, as called out for purpose, differs from coinage of a tight sounding appealing concept–hence the warning and caution.
The context of your first response was regarding the Warnoc etc., seeing their contribution as vital was called into question by probing here, yes of what you wrote and shared–being very much in part, but too, in the context of defending Warnoc ideed. I have no quarrel with your take on adoption for purpose, as sons, in this illustration, or that one. I have a quarrel with finding followers for anyone, or any doctrine, other than of those asserted by the King of the Kingdom.
And, Andrew,
Just as I would be in error, if ascribing to you some tendency without knowledge of what you would do, assert, and assume, I wait and see what you will do indeed.
In your last response to my probing, you state on the theme you are working on:
“Now through a victorious work, He gives us the downpayment of the Spirit of sonship, to experience through suffering and then glory, as sons like Christ in baptism (behold my beloved Son) the wilderness testings (if you are the Son) into victory and promise (all akin to Israel – God’s firstborn)”.
Unpacking all in this paragraph should indeed show your actual intention, to conform to or add to the Word of God, about us, as such. Where we preach Him, it will be abiding in the resurrection of I Cor. 15, and, if adding to such, without the qualification of Paul of II Cor 4:5, what will be the case of defining what may be in sight as to your development of “sonship”???
As to the title of this article, perhaps some wait for the Divine sense of appointed time. Consider the Asbury model of revival and renewal: which spilled over to a whole generation starting in 1970.
Amen and Bravo! Just wondering if you have ever seen “Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism” and “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” on Google. Shocking stuff! Jake
This is a true fact.i will start playing my role in the spreading of the gospel.God bless you